Support For Graduates
Hi, I have a degree from Birmingham university and a postgraduate qalification from City university. I struggled through education undiagnosed with a degree in Maths & Computer Science.
I can get temporary jobs but not a permanent career related job. I am studying for exams to change my course.
I was diagnosed with AS in a very uncaring way more than the 3 years after finishing my postgraduate course. I cannot try for graduate training schemes because after 2/3 years I am not considered a graduate (there are too many graduates in the UK), the layers of testing, outsourcing of work,will an employer understand AS? Smaller companies tend to require a person who an multitask so requiring excellent communication skills which acts against people with AS. If one has no contacts I think nearly all graduates with AS are unemployed, doing part time work or a recent (public sector)administration. The situation is worse outside London and if one is a recent graduate living in London Prospects may help. Outside
London, there is less support and less jobs for gradutes and non-graduates . The job centre, RBLI, Employability in Surrey were no help to me.
The trouble is that I have a late diagnosis after education with no career but I wll get one. If I had moderate AS diagnosed as a child I might be able to go to a day centre. If did not have a degree I could do courses and get support but I am over-qualified for non-graduate jobs. Prospects only seem to have administration jobs worth £6-£7/hour. Is it worth the time, money,effort to go to London travelling 3hours 40 minutes a day with all the tax or a job non-career related. When a person gets older the problem , the problem gets worse.
The access to information such as free services and information such as the disability discrimination act and disability rights is not easily available.
I think the future for AS graduates will improve a long time in the future. I ad to boost my low-self esteem in my own way.
See
http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=224&threadid=17...
SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
I attended interviews at the local council. They did not understand AS, even when I had declared my AS. The civil service, N.H.S and BBC positively support disabled graduates.
I think many private sector employers say they will help people but do they actually support people with AS ? They like to make people think they support disabled people.
It is illegal to discriminate against ethnic minorities but there is still wide discrimination which is hard to prove.
Some employers are good, some are not good.
SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
I attended interviews at the local council. They did not understand AS, even when I had declared my AS. The civil service, N.H.S and BBC positively support disabled graduates.
I think many private sector employers say they will help people but do they actually support people with AS ? They like to make people think they support disabled people.
It is illegal to discriminate against ethnic minorities but there is still wide discrimination which is hard to prove.
Some employers are good, some are not good.
neuro diverse graduates including graduates with AS
Here is a link.
The summary is generally accurate. The recommendations are better.
http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/danda-focus/conclusion-of-a-dissertation-o...
I do not think any organisation can help a graduate with a late diagnosis.
Taking one of the admin jobs
Taking one of the admin jobs for a while might not be such a bad idea, even if the pay isn't what you expect. This is based on the premise that it's better to have a paying job than not.
Staying in the Market
I think that in the current market this is more than sound advice.
Its said that it is easier to get another job whilst you already have one, and I think that this is very true.
I also think that not being in work is very damaging from an Asperger perspective. When this has occured to me I tend to dwell on things and worry mentally.
I also slip into "routine mode" whereby I feel comfortable being on my own to a degree and out of the [mainstream] world.
I think its vital to remain active and be doing "something". You can always learn new skills as well.When out of work one of the things I did was work in a pub. You have to initiate conversation with customers and this help my social and communication skills.
Persistence and Reward
Aladdin
Firstly, thank you for the posting and good to see you on the forums.
Secondly, well done for remaining positive - "I will get one" - about obtaining a job. This, I think, says a lot about you and your outlook and makes me suspect that you may well be succssful sooner than you think. Good luck.
You say that you were diagnosed late. I was too - I self discovered in my mid-30's. What I would say in relation to this is that it is never too late.
Finding out about the positives and negatives of this? On balance, I would say that the former outweighs the latter. It has enabled me to understand and identify the issues and then redress them. Before I simply did not know what these were.
I can only sympathise with what you say about the lack of support. This was the key reason why I wrote and book and, subsequently, had the Asperger Management website built.
I hope that it will act as a forum where everyone working in more responsible/senior positions - or looking for ones - can come together and share our thoughts, exchange ideas and solutions that will help us all going forward.
I am not a Careers expert but what I would say in relation to your job search from my own experience is this. Its often better to move horizontally rather than vertically (which is often not possible initially), especially if you are looking to change direction somewhat. What I mean by this is taking a lesser job in the field in which you want to work initially.
The reasons for this are it enables you to get some basic experience; it also gets you into a company in the first place whereby you can hear about vacancies before they are advertised.
It also means you can get to speak to the person who may well hire eventuall, negating their need to advertise if a vacancy becomes available. Once you are in it is easier to move around.
If you can't get in then try to take some voluntary work in the field. As those reading my blog will know I have just started a new job in Executive Education.
Over the last few years I have given guest lectures on colleges and this stood me in great stead at the interview: it proved that I was genuinely interested and had made long term efforts to get involved/move into this field.
If you received my last e-letter you may have seen that I am currently working with the careers service at Nottingham University on a project to help students with AS transition into the workplace.
What I am hoping is that I can build on this to extend services into other related areas. People 2/3 years out of University such as yourself could be the next target audience for the next stage of the project: i.e. identifying methodologies for assisting people to progress when in the world of work.
It would be great, therefore, if you could keep posting so we can build up a knowledge base of the area. It is clear from what you have written that you have a lot of interesting and invaluable insight to offer.
Good luck with the job search and keep at it. You *will* be successful!
MJ
Re : Persistance and Reward
Hi Malcolm,
I was diagnosed in early 2004 at the age of 25. I have a chequered career history. I could have beeen offered a full time permanent job in a financial software house in London but there was no room in early 2005. I found some of the work stressful in the software house. I was too scared to say my AS might be the problem.
I have worked on my skills. I changed from IT. I have skills in web design, web development, computer programming and database work. I attempted a Java certification. I realised early in 2006, that there was no future in IT. I have worked in a web development company including voluntary work. I trying to become a statistician/operational researcher, I have a professional qualification in stats.
Look to the future.
ALADDIN
Age, diagnosis and persistence
Hi Aladdin,
My partner is self-diagnosed AS at age 43. A matter of 4 months after his 45th birthday he finally got employment in the career of his dreams and ambitions. He has never been happier in the 5 years we have been together.
J left school in Scotland with no qualifications aged 16. He was fortunate there was a family business to give him a place to work and grow - but when his parents wanted to retire he was smart enough to know he didn't love the business enough to take it on - and also he knew that he by himself would work 80-90 hours a week to maintain its success.
Instead he did night school to get his entry to university - 4 years of part-time evening study from the age of 27 to 32. Entered university at 32, struggled hugely through to get a passable qualification - and was diagnosed with pronouced dyslexia in his last year because of a chance encounter with an educational psychology student. In this time he also had to deal with a life threatening illness.
I met him after he had failed his attempt to get an MA in his desired field - and now he knows that what "caused" his failure was undiagnosed depressive illness - something he is now medicated for.
In the last 5 years he has done lots of temporary menial work (yep, he has worked at Tescoes), he has also done voluntary work when he was unable to get employment. At the begining of 2007 he applied for and got a scholarship to study town planning as a full-time 1 year masters qualification. With my support he has got all except one of the papers and his disertation completed - those two will follow in due course. In the mean time he kept applying for planning jobs and he landed one just over 6 months ago.
His workplace accept and work with the dyslexia - I still offer him a lot of support - we are just doing a whole remedial course of the rules of Grammar, so he is more aware of the mistakes he makes. He is also going to see if work will let him load Dragon onto his computer so he can use dictation rather than typing as that helps him overcome some major problems.
His diagnosis of AS is so obvious I missed it for a long time. I come from a family full of male aspies - some diagnosed, others not. No wonder I am so comfortable with him. It took me seeing his dyslexia assessment documents to finally twig. Working out I was a female AS was an unexpected surprise once I started reading more and understanding more about the spectrum nature of AS.
One of my male friends is almost certainly AS and works as a bank security IT person. As his boss says "your code is virtually uncrackable - you just don't think like normal people"
Late diagnosis is a shock, but it is something we can use to our advantage at times.
Good luck and keep going!
Helen
Area of Specialisation
I have a good - Aspie - friend who works for the Office of National Statistics. He really likes it there.
One is particularly helpful I know is the support they give him. He has mentoring support and is allowed to work from home one day a week which eases the burden in a number of ways.
I think that it is a good skill to acquire. I know that it is also applicable to other areas (i.e. actuarialism) and so offers good career development opportunities.
If I could give one piece of advice which I think is highly relevant to someone with AS. It is to take things slowly and build up from a strong base.
What I mean by this is, because our learning mode is different meaning that it takes slightly longer to assimilate some aspects of our work, taking on less to start, really getting on top of it and learning the principles thoroughly, can pay real dividends later.
It also helps to mitigate other AS-related issues like deflecting potential criticism, gaining respect from colleagues etc.
So good luck. There are opportunities out there and you will succeed.
Area Of Specialization
The Office of National Statistics are shutting their London office to move to Newport. I studied actuarial science, I found it very stressful. The actuarial profession is very competitive, one has to pass exams at the company's rate.
PSYCOMETRIC TESTING + ASSESSMENT CENTRES DISCRIMATE
The most likely suuport for AS is in an organisation which is a large cooporation or a small specialist organisation. I believe the support for graduates is variable, most people have very little knowledge.
To get a graduate job:
1) use your contacts, very few people with AS have the contacts
2)pass an assessment centre, there are layers of testing, the psychometric tests are tough, even NT people find assessment centres, no experience required but the competition is fierce, especially now, sometimes over 100 people apply for 1 vacancy
3) a smaller company where there is less likely to be support for AS, experience + skills are more likely to be requirements, a smaller company has a greater chance of multi tasking, the programmer, the consultant, phone work, the analyst, tester can be required at once, also a degree may not be advantageous
ALADDIN
Large Company Entry
I agree with your points about the entry process for graduates into large companies.
However, I think that it is worth pointing out that it is the large companies who usually have more structured disability procedures in place.
If you ascertain these prior to making an application, then the company can make accomodations. For example, if you explain what your condition is then you may be exempted from something like psychometric testing and given an alternative application procedure to fulfill instead.
I used to work for the BBC and I know what accomodations and efforts they would make for disabled employees, though I accept that some companies (like the BBC) are more amenable than others.
Remember also that in the UK there is the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) - and the equivalent in the US - that obligate organisations to make "reasonable adjustments".
I think people with Asperger should take advantage of this support
Large Company Entry
I agree with your points about the entry process for graduates into large companies.
However, I think that it is worth pointing out that it is the large companies who usually have more structured disability procedures in place.
If you ascertain these prior to making an application, then the company can make accomodations. For example, if you explain what your condition is then you may be exempted from something like psychometric testing and given an alternative application procedure to fulfill instead.
I used to work for the BBC and I know what accomodations and efforts they would make for disabled employees, though I accept that some companies (like the BBC) are more amenable than others.
Remember also that in the UK there is the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) - and the equivalent in the US - that obligate organisations to make "reasonable adjustments".
I think people with Asperger should take advantage of this support
Nottingham University Student Transition Project
As readers of my blog will know, I have been working in close conjunction over the last few months on a new project to help students with Asperger syndrome identify suitable career evaluation and career option selections, prepare a personal work for workplace entry and actually enter the workplace.
I am pleased to say that the whole project is not only going very well, but is proving increasingly successful.
We are now looking at how we can build on the initial pilot programme. A number of people have written to me asking if I can put more information about the project on Aspergermanagement.com This is something that I would very much like to do.
What I also want to do is try and develop a support service for people with Asperger who have moved beyond student life and are seeking support and guidance. I know that a number of people feel that this is absent at the moment and that there is a gap in provision for this.
To assist in my exploration of this, I would very much welcome feedback from people in this type of situation, what support they think would be useful and how we could possibly investigate going about providing it.
For those who do not know, there is a very interesting company in Denmark known as Specialisterne. It's a fantastic company started by a person who has a young son with autism - Thorkil Sonne - and which only employs people with AS.
Their area of operation is software development which is ideally suited to people with Asperger as it "exploits" the strong individual skills - analytical, attention to detail etc - that those with AS possess.
Thorkil is building a marvellous business, one which is not just a social enterprise (important though that is), but also one that is commercially viable and successful because it utilises the unique skills inherent in the Asperger personality profile. Talented people with AS are delivery real, commercial results.
If you want to learn more about Specialisterne, please do visit their website at www.specialisterne.dk
In the meantime if people could provide any feedback along the lines outlined above it would be very much appreciated.
Kind regards
Malcolm
Nottingham University Student Transition Project
I would recommend a list of careers with as much information as possible which includes different qualifications, characteristics, sectors, job titles, prospects, companies which use the job titles, career open days, links to organisations and quotes from experts.
I would like professional careers advice from people who are supportive.
My experience is that careers advisors and careers advice are both very confusing and unclear.
Developing Specialist Advice
Thank you for this most useful insight.
The problem in the UK is that Careers Services and advisors are largely unaware of Asperger syndrome and, more importantly, what it involves and constitutes. This makes it very hard for them to specifically advise a person with AS. That is what my Transitions Project with Nottingham University is all about.
Already we are getting great feedback from the four students involved and the project is growing and gaining momentum all the time. We will building on this in the coming months, and I am due to present the project to a national university careers conference in September.
Our aim is to build on the pilot programme so far and - if we can get funding - to take the project nationwide. That way we can increase awareness of Asperger's throughout the Higher Education system and also provide the specialist advice and support that the system currently lacks.
I am hugely excited about the potential of this project, not least of all because it will - partially at least - address many of the needs that you allude to in your posting.
A number of other people are asking about the project via Asperger Management and would like more details. I am going to publish a Q&A session with the Careers Advisor at Nottingham who is working with me on the project in my next newsletter and which is due to go out at the end of the month - please watch out for it.
I am also going to post more information relating to the project in general and the government's current consultation process for its Strategy for Adults With Autism "A Better Future" which is currently running. We will be making a submission on the Transitions Project to this shortly
I see this too as a major opportunity for us all. I know how frustrating it is for everyone currently with the inadequate support. However, it is only by doing something ourselves that we can realistically do something about it.
Developing Specialist Advice
I think it depends on the age of diagnosis.
If a person has a diagnosis as a child then there is the potential for adulthood support.
If a person recieves a diagnosis of AS at the age of 25 or 30+ , it is generally too late for the diagnosis to have a large impact on one's careers but everyone is
different.
Developing Specialist Advice
I think it depends on the age of diagnosis.
If a person has a diagnosis as a child then there is the potential for adulthood support.
If a person recieves a diagnosis of AS at the age of 25 or 30+ , it is generally too late for the diagnosis to have a large impact on one's careers but everyone is
different.
What about 10 years after graduation?
If it's hard enough for graduates 2-3 years out of university, where does that leave someone like me - dismissed from a scientific civil service job that no-one outside the office apparently understood, and no management experience either to boot.
Too Late?
I appreciate what you are saying but, in my opinion, it is never too late.
I found out about my Asperger at 35 and doing so was one of the best things that happened to me from a career perspective.
Once I understood why things were happening I was able to do something about them. Before I knew things were "wrong", but not knowing why meant there was no basis for change.
I think you also have to be philosophical and realistic about your personal circumstances. If you find out late, you find out late! There is nothing you can do about it.
What I would hope that everyone will try and do is make the most of their own situation and try to move forward. I believe passionately that everyone can!
Too Late ? Very Difficult But Not Impossible
I think in my case a late diagnosis of AS is difficult but not impossible.
The real problem is that careers services at my universities were not very well resourced and the advisors were not that helpful and realistic. They seemes to be targeted towards " one type " of graduate. I have had to mature. Careers information is clearer.
See,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/may/09/careers-advisers-graduat...
Too Late ? Very Difficult But Not Impossible
I think in my case a late diagnosis of AS is difficult but not impossible.
The real problem is that careers services at my universities were not very well resourced and the advisors were not that helpful and realistic. They seemes to be targeted towards " one type " of graduate. I have had to mature. Careers information is clearer.
See,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/may/09/careers-advisers-graduat...