Job Search, Networking, and Age Issues
Dear Forum Members
My name is Peter and I am happy to have just joined your website. I’m 54, living in the UK, and have been an independent management consultant for the last few years after having a number of senior management positions with major telecommunications companies. Over the last year after my daughter was diagnosed with AS, I have read a lot of books on as the subject. Although I have not been formally assessed, I am 100% confident that I too have AS.
Of all the AS books I have read, Malcolm Johnson’s Managing with Asperger Syndrome is by far the most relevant to me because it appears to be the only one written about AS people who have been able to progress to senior management positions. We seem to be a select and rarefied segment of the population, which apparently has fallen through the cracks!
Looking back on my career, I have personally experienced almost identical scenarios to the ones that Malcolm described. If only I knew then what I know now, I would have avoided many pitfalls! In spite of these experiences I have managed to reach VP-level positions with major telecoms companies, but now my career has stagnated over the last 5 years. When my full-time employment ended then, I was able to get consulting assignments based on previous industry contacts but these have dried up recently. Part of this has to do with non-AS issues:
- The telecoms industry has been retrenching in general.
- My specialty, Corporate Development and Strategy, is also in lower demand as company mergers and acquisitions activity is not so prevalent.
- Age is increasingly an issue, particularly here in the UK. Many of the jobs that I am qualified for are being filled by 35-year olds. A lot of people my age seem to be semi-retired already, which is not an option for me with 4 children in school.
That being said, I believe my AS is a major contributing factor in why I have been unable to get stable employment or consulting work in recent years. Here are some of the problems I’m facing:
- Networking. Everyone says that networking is the best way to get a new job and that you should spend 70-80% of your time doing this. In practice, effective networking is difficult even for most NT people; AS people have a much harder time. I certainly do.
- Adapting to Change. Obviously, I have done a poor job with proactive career planning (as described in this website) and I have not adapted my qualifications and self marketing to changing market conditions as other ex-telecoms people have done.
- Self confidence. Being out of the workforce has taken a toll on self esteem, and becoming aware of AS can be depressing at times. On the other hand, I feel that with everything I have learned about my AS, I am now much better equipped to do well in senior management positions. The problem I have right now is landing the job!
- Execution. Like many AS people, I have studied both the job search process and Asperger Syndrome a great deal and I know what I should be doing. My problem is actually doing it!
One of the solutions is that I have to get out more and share experiences with people of a similar background and circumstances, so this forum looks like a great start. I am also involved in career networking groups and a local Toastmasters club to improve my career leads and confidence in communicating.
Regarding career counselling, I have enquired with the NAS about Prospects, but it became clear that Prospects is geared more to teaching basic skills for people just entering the workforce, not for people like me. I have also had some career coaching, but have found this to be of limited help if the coach is not familiar with AS.
I would welcome any thoughts anyone may have regarding their personal experiences and recommendations, discussion and support groups, career coaches who are familiar with AS or AS counsellors who are familiar with senior-level career planning. Thanks for your help!
Best regards
Peter
Networking
I am re-visiting a post on networking that was posted some time ago as its a subject that I am keen to speak to others about.
As people who have been reading my blog are aware I have recently changed jobs.
I have moved out of marketing into the Executive Education field. The latter is something that I have always been interested in. Whilst I was at the BBC I did a couple of guest lectures on Universities and really enjoyed it.
I think that it also resonates with my values which I have as someone with AS: being in a relaxed constructive environment where I am helping others to develop.
Its early days and, to be honest, I am just pleased to have a job in this climate. I also think its really useful for me to build a second string to my bow, particularly as I get older what with marketing being a young man's game.
I have to confess that I am missing the entertainment industry and want to retain my links with it in case i want to go back later.
What I have decided to do is try to meet at leats two contacts a month over the next year in order to retian, maintain and build my network.
Central to this is a key lesson that I have learnt: do not contact peopel out-of-the-blue only when you actually need something!
High Unemployment and Underemployment Rates
Hi Everybody
I wanted to revisit this topic with a quote from Yvona Fast in her book, Employment for Individuals with Asperger Syndrome or Non-Verbal Learning Disability:
"...it's more accurate to say that 90 percent of the AS population is underemployed. Of the couple hundred AS people I have met, at least half have jobs but very few are employed at the level you would expect if you knew their education."
It appears that the unemployment rate is huge, approaching almost 50% and the underemployment rate is also very high, and both total about 90% of the AS population. From your own experience, how accurate do you think these statements are?
Peter
Uncertain Situation
I think that it is very difficult to say for certain what the unemployment rate is for people with AS because of the rate of disclosure.
For many who are working, particularly in more responsible positions, many I suspect prefer not to disclose for confidentiality reasons.
Under-employment is a different issue. I am convinced that most of us could do a lot more. Our technical expertise and knowledge is often second-to-none; what presents barriers of course are the related factors like inter-personal relations.
An aim of Asperger Management is to help try and change this. My own experience has convinced me that the "barriers" are not insuperable.
As I think I mentioned in one of my previous e-letters, I am currently investigating the possibility of adding a Members Area to the site so that people can log their background and experience.
If that works OK we can then possibly start to develop a forum whereby actual openings can be publicised.
It can be a uncertain situation
I would also have to say it's difficult to really know the unemployment and underemployment rate for Aspies are due to the rate of disclosure and just the fact that there are still many Aspies out there who do not know they have AS.
It can be a uncertain situation
I would also have to say it's difficult to really know the unemployment and underemployment rate for Aspies are due to the rate of disclosure and just the fact that there are still many Aspies out there who do not know they have AS.
HIGH UNDEREMPLOYMENT/UNEMPLOYMENT
I would agree that around 90% of people with AS are underemployed but I think around 75% of people with AS are unemployed.
Both figures are for people of working age.
I think these figures are
I think these figures are likely to be accurate if you are talking about Asperger's people over the spectrum of functioning. It is often a case of taking whatever job one can get, even if it is not directly in the field one studied.
It also depends on personality, and perceived ability by employers of that person being able to get along in the workplace with other team members. The seemingly brash person who isn't afraid to say what they think can have just as much as, if not more, trouble finding work as the quieter ones.
In times of economic uncertainty, employers can pick and choose, making it more difficult for anybody with a disability or difference to find a good job (what I term a good job is one where the pay covers expenses with a little left over, is congenial in terms of working environment and provides some intellectual challenge without being impossibly arduous emotionally).
HIGH UNDEREMPLOYMENT/UNEMPLOYMENT
The support for highly intelligent/high skilled/high eduucated people is only available in London, if you are a recent graduate and live in London.
Without the support, many people with AS face a lifetime of under employment or unemployment.The introduction of top up fees and the lack of suitable employed for graduates with AS are putting off people with AS going to university.
I want a career not a job. Working in a call centre or administration does not utilise my skills and qualifications, has few prospects and is boring.
People who have a late diagnosis of AS and no career have few options. It depends on the person. However, even people with a childhood diagnosis are likely to have problems.
I blame the Department of Work and Pensions, and the Employment Service. The N.A.S do not have the funding, which is the major problem. I feel careers services are not very well tailored for people with asperger syndrome.
Working in a call centre
Working in a call centre would be impossible for most aspies anyway and most positions are on short term contracts anyway and the conditions are generally quite poor.
Support in Finding a Job
I can fully understand why this is so frustrating. I have been in the same situation and there can seem, at times, to be no way out.
But there is. It takes persistance and - or at least I found - acknowledgement on my own part - that I am different because of my AS. However, what also became apparent to me over time, is that the latter can offer real benefits and even be an advantage.
One of the things that I always so, is do something! I know that working in a call centre is not a long term desirable option, but if you can get a lower position "in the area you want to work in eventually" it can bring a number of advantages.
Firstly, it keeps you busy and occupied. As a person with AS I cannot emphasise just how important this is. Staying at hone and not having contact with people is far from ideal as it prevents one from mixing with people. It also keeps you "on the move" and active by providing a purpose on a daily basis.
Secondly, and very importantly from a career perspective, if you can do something in the area you are interested in it gets you a foot in the door and mixing with the type of people already working there.
This means they get to know you and you can start building relationships with them. I cannot emphasise strongly enough from my own experience just how beneficial this is for locating jobs. You get them by networking - not largely by writing speculative letters and applying for ads.
The latter invariably means having to compete with other people which brings the people skills element into the process which - of course - is not our strength.
Finally in this area, I learnt a very important and invaluable lesson from a circular from a career coach many years ago: the value and importance of "horizontal" career moves.
What this means is that you do not pass through vertical progressions upwards all the time. You need to take side steps or even lower jobs to move into the required areas (often emerging/growting ones) to "posiiton" yourself for future opportunities.
I remember whilst at the BBC not applying for a job that was working directly in telelvision (I was in support services at the time) as it would have meant taking a £2k a year pay cut!
Looking back, that was a poor decision. If I had applied and got it - which well I mightgiven that it was an internal vacancy and the work I was doing was closely related - it would have given me gilt-edged experience in the BBC in a highly sought after area.
Just my thoughts. As readers of Aspergermanagement will know I am currently working with the careers service at Nottingham University on a transitions project to assist students with AS to evolve into the world of work.
It may be that this work is of relevance to you if you are interested in finding out more?
Support in Finding a Job
I agree with you. I tried voluntary work. I feel full details about careers should be easily accessible so it can help a person with AS decide which career is suitable.
Employers sometimes skills, experience and perhaps certain qualifications.
The government wants to increase the number of students/graduates but the number of graduate vacancies are increasing by a smaller amount, so all graduates have increased risk of under employment/unemployment.
The vast majority of graduate opportunities are only available to graduates who have finished their course with in 2 - 3 years. I think this is due to the large increase in graduates and the expectation that graduates go into management.
I recieved a bad diagnosis of AS more than 3 years after finishing my postgraduate course, I recieved almost no post diagnostic support.
Most opportunities are based in London. If a person does not live in London they have to pay huge transport costs and they must endure long journey times on a good day.
I don't like meeting strangers. Networking is not easy, because I do not know what to say, to "break the ice" although I have improved since childhood.
Essential Disclosure
Both very useful points.
Elsewhere on another forum there is one member who is concerned that they may lose their job but is undecided about disclosing his condition or not.
In this scenario i.e. if redundancy was to occur without him disclosing it would be a job loss connected to AS but about which no-one would ever know.
It obviously depends on personal circumstances and a variety of related reasons but, in a situation like this, I suspect that disclosure means you have largely nothing to lose.
Develop new skills?
Peter, I read your posting with interest. I can appreciate that it must be a worrying time for you as you try to find stable employment. I can identify with most of what you write. I am a learning consultant in my late 40s and only recently diagnosed with AS. I can see myself in your position in 5-10 years time. I have changed jobs several times and I have found career counselling of some assistance in working out what kind of job I should persue. This may be appropriate for someone in their 20s or 30s, but not so relevant for 40s or 50s. I think there is a need for specialist career guidance and coaching for AS people in management. If you have some financial reserves, have you thought of developing new skills. A friend of mine is finding her job very stressful and has decided to explore two alternative lower stress jobs of 1-to-1 tutoring and book keeping. I have to say it is hard to imagine a more stressful job for an AS person than as a management consultant. Perhaps being a salesman is worse. I was briefly a technical consultant working with management consultants and found the experience very stressful.
New Skills - New Markets
Thanks sjarvis
You’re right about consulting being stressful. I’m self employed rather than working for a consulting firm and I’m only doing it as an alternative to unemployment. For me, the really stressful aspect of consulting is having to market myself to get consulting assignments rather than doing the actual work. I don’t mind heavy workloads or deadlines, they provide structure. It’s planning ahead, taking initiative, networking and selling which are problems for me. When I have been busy, I have focused entirely on the assignment and neglected positioning myself for future work resulting in the proverbial feast or famine syndrome. I would much prefer full-time employment!
I have an MBA and good analytical skills and I would be happy to develop new skills or qualifications provided that there is good growth potential for those skills. But it’s not always straightforward in practice. For example, I almost got involved in a new area: providing financial planning services for individuals, estates and companies. I was invited to join a company in this field and it would have involved getting some additional qualifications, which would be fairly easy to obtain. I was led to believe by this company that I would be able to use my analytical skills to churn out a considerable amount of work and get commensurate commissions. After lengthy discussions it became apparent that the business was having a hard time selling these services, so much so, it was even trying to sell them to me personally prior to signing a contract with me! It was clear that I wouldn’t be doing much work for them unless it was to provide advice for my friends and relatives! I would have to sell and make cold calls like everybody else. So sometimes, it’s possible to get new qualifications, but if many other people can also get them, you have lots of people chasing after relatively few clients.
As an alternative I thought of getting a Chartered Accountant qualification, but in this country it takes years and it requires having on-the-job work experience (a Catch-22) and then when you get the qualification you still have to work your way up and get new clients. After all of that I would probably be making substantially less than before. Unfortunately our outgoings are rather high right now.
That being said, I would be happy to transition my skills and experience into a growth market and business, retraining if necessary. In essence, I need to proactively adapt to the changing market. I also know that being part of a company, large or small, is much better for me than working on my own. I’m still trying to find the right growth market, company and people to work with. Any thoughts and ideas would be most welcome!
Peter
Pooling Resources
Gentlemen
This is a really positive, useful and encouraging thread.
I'll give this some thought because I think it would be great if we could identify ways we could help each other as a community.
I think that the starting point is the Members Area where we can all list our personal details, background and experience etc. That way people can contact each other directly and we can swap information.
Regards
Malcolm
Hi, I'm taking part in
Hi,
I'm taking part in Toastmasters with the intention of furthering my career as well. I'm hoping it can allow me to address issues related to Asperger's syndrome that compromise my public speaking. For instance, I'm using it to explore possible solutions to the issue of having a monotone voice and strange body language. Obviously, maintaining the status quo is hard, but adopting something that is too foreign will mean that it will fall off in a high-pressure situation.
Graeme
Toastmasters
Hi Graeme
Thanks for your reply. I think Toastmasters is an excellent and very cost effective way to “learn by doing.” It’s also a safe way for somebody with AS to learn because everybody who joins Toastmasters has similar shortcomings with public speaking, so you don’t have to worry about standing out as long as you participate regularly. Like everything else with AS, one is accumulating a repertoire of knowledge and experience: in this case it's how to face audiences and deliver different types of speeches. I think that with practice, everything including using eye contact, hand jestures, body language and voice intonation can be learned and improved so that the AS shortcomings are almost unnoticeable. There is even the opportunity to practice impromptu speaking with “Table Topics,” which I find especially relevant for us who have difficulty “thinking on our feet.”
Being in front of an audience is in itself a high-pressure situation but it gets easier and less fearful with regular practice, even (or especially) for people with AS. In my opinion getting involved in these types of activities is the best way to prepare for future stressful situations.
Peter
Networking & Job Searching with AS
Peter
Welcome to Asperger Management and thank you for your most interesting and invaluable first posting.
The Career Development forum is on of the two most visted on the site. I have to say that this surprised me somewhat, but I very much intend to build on this and try to provide a wider service for all of us.
Central to this is an area where everyone can openly post their personal and professional details if they so wish. This will enable people to contact each other directly and share thoughts and experiences.
I was hoping to have this up-and-running this month, but we have had some difficulty amalgamating the facility into the website technically. Hopefully next month this will be resolved!
I look forward to hearing more about and receiving further postings.
With kind regards
Malcolm
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Is this too good to be true?
Non-Asperger Related Advice
Almost certainly I would have thought; and very unlikely to contain any understanding or specific advice relating to Asperger syndrome!
Career Development and Networking Forum
Malcolm
Thanks for your prompt reply. I think having an such area where people can exchange information is a great idea.
Best regards
Peter